tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370162161693557709.post1146879461075798579..comments2023-06-08T08:26:07.304-05:00Comments on Advanced Gaming & Theory: The Mechanic Series part 1: Energy DrainRipperXhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03506064393275174920noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370162161693557709.post-17350755039278604482016-01-07T19:44:50.576-06:002016-01-07T19:44:50.576-06:00Brooser, thanks for clarifying that. I had tried t...Brooser, thanks for clarifying that. I had tried that method as well, but I think that there are already monsters out there that do just that, isn't there? None are coming to mind without spending a few hours pouring over MM entries.<br /><br />I could be wrong. I have created parasites that latch on and start draining stats, curses also do the same thing, is Energy Drain a curse? It could be. RipperXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506064393275174920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370162161693557709.post-45374791049733384002016-01-07T15:26:59.325-06:002016-01-07T15:26:59.325-06:00Rip, what I meant was, how would we handle energy ...Rip, what I meant was, how would we handle energy and level drain if there were no levels, like in real life? What would level drain consist of?<br /><br />Is energy drain a form of soul drain? Would that affect memories? Well, what is a soul? Whatever it is, it is part of the intangible effect of the neural function - the mind and consciousness, and those reside in the brain matter itself. Our being is tied to our memories, feelings, and experiences, and so must The Soul. Everything that we experience changes the chemical composition, the neural structure and the neural activity of the brain. Remove any part of the brain, and some part of the person is gone forever. Some people wake up after strokes and brain traumas as totally new and different individuals - some memories are gone, and a different personality, held back and shaped by those missing memories, lurches forward. This phenomenon, this vulnerability, the so very fragile nature of who we are, is painfully familiar to neurologists, psychiatrists and neurosurgeons.<br /><br />What are the implications for D&D? Any brain damage, and electrical attack has potential for energy drain and level loss, BUT we won't get into that.<br /><br />On the other hand, a severely shocked and traumatized fighter with STR 18 (00) might be lacking confidence to do STR 18 (00) and might only perform as a STR 17. IN AD&D, Non-Weapon Proficiencies are based on Primary Attributes (roll under with bonuses and/or penalties). So, 1 level drain will reduce each attribute by 1 point, thereby reducing the effectiveness of the character's Proficiencies.Brooser Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487438364129415650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370162161693557709.post-23918312213023742282016-01-06T16:54:36.340-06:002016-01-06T16:54:36.340-06:00"How do you handle energy drain, if you have ..."How do you handle energy drain, if you have NO levels?"<br /><br />0th lvl NPCs always die. I have seen, and played modules where the PC starts out at 0th level and becomes a full PC, but I would never put even a first Lvl character up against a powerful undead. . . well, never say never. <br /><br />Personally I think that you are guilty of reading my brains, Broozer, as these comments better address it. <br /><br />SKills never factored into the original intentions of Energy Drain, but if we don't include them it could cause the PC to try and cheat by taking an additional skill. The way I see it is that you self teach yourself skills, either through books or talking to others, and you spend time that you aren't adventuring to do it. You can do the skill, but that doesn't mean that you are proficient in the skill until it is officially on your Character Sheet. Energy drain will take it right back off because it drains your soul, maybe this effects memories too? <br />RipperXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506064393275174920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370162161693557709.post-41521189686086971432016-01-06T09:29:05.291-06:002016-01-06T09:29:05.291-06:00I got a question for you - How do you handle energ...I got a question for you - How do you handle energy drain, if you have NO levels? <br /><br />I have figured it out somewhat. In my game, the concept of a level largely reflects the complexity of a spell or a task, and is largely qualitative and logarithmic, i.e. non-linear. <br /><br />For instance, an Apprentice Carpenter can work under supervision. Journeyman Carpenter can make his or her own tools, and work on their own on an assigned task. A Foreman can do all of the above, and also direct a crew of carpenters and build a structure from scratch, while a Master carpenter can regularly pull off unique and original work, which has never been done and for which there are no existing plans.<br /><br />These are LEVELS. How do we Energy Drain the Carpenter? My take is as follows - it takes personal strength expressed in terms of self-confidence, independence, self-reliance, absence of fear and anxiety, POSITIVE emotions, to be able to function as a Master or a Crew Chief. An Energy Drain attack would have to destroy those personal qualities, which allow one to function at a high lever. That makes sense - the Undead are NEGATIVE! Close personal conflict with these Undead traumatizes people and destroys their emotional strength, once it is gone, the victim becomes a true emotional puppet of the Undead, which created it.<br /><br />In essence, the victim of energy drain becomes a coward and a 'fraidy cat! They are too insecure to take creative risks as masters of their craft, and they are too chicken to lead a crew.<br /><br />This actually is very much a part of the human history - all of the medieval torture, the brandings, mutilations, later deemed "Cruel and Unusual" by our Constitution, were very effectively used to destroy potential leaders who might oppose the powers that be. During the Protestant Reformation, take a preacher, who proselytizes contrary to your dogma or political ideology - cut off his ears and brand a criminal on his forehead ( O for Outlaw), and he very likely will not have the guts to take and pulpit and lead the congregation, or if he tries, the congregation might just laugh at him, instead of paying attention to what he says. Cut off his tongue, for the repeat offence, and he will not be physically capable of addressing his former congregation...<br /><br />I still level up my player characters - they get additional HP and level for the purposes of Saving Throws. Non-Weapon Proficiencies, are learned separately and can be improved by training (costs time and money) between adventuring. <br /><br />Gygax himself wrote that Hit Points are largely psychological quality of being able to stay in combat longer, that lends itself perfectly to mechanics of energy drain.<br /><br />As we saw, there is nothing inherently supernatural to energy drain, it just comes from a different source in fantasy gaming.<br /><br />Recovery from energy drain is also non-magical, you need days, weeks, months, years of healing to fully recover from energy drain, and there is no simple spell to speed it up. High level priests and wizards, may be able to restore the deeply scarred psyche at a faster pace, but it will be a quest-adventure level type of a deal.<br /><br />As an aside, what I do is, once the player character has enough experience points to level up, he needs a higher level fighter or a higher level NPC in the same class as the player for about a week of practice to assimilate the player's battle experience and turn it to higher HP and improved Saving Throws.Brooser Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487438364129415650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370162161693557709.post-71867750036819158822016-01-04T12:53:54.931-06:002016-01-04T12:53:54.931-06:00Energy Drain separates strong players, from poor p...Energy Drain separates strong players, from poor players; Hack-N-Slash Harry is going to learn an important lesson in gaming if he tries to bully his way through a room full of Shadow. <br /><br />Energy Drain vs. None Weapon Prof. also features a conflict in core rules, one that requires DM interpretation which is why the game requires a referee. RipperXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506064393275174920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370162161693557709.post-79263274033697745202016-01-04T12:07:10.040-06:002016-01-04T12:07:10.040-06:00I actually prefer the draining aspect. I prefer th...I actually prefer the draining aspect. I prefer the lethality/abilities of monsters from Older editions so much that I have brought in many of the older versions of creatures for later editions. <br /><br />I want my players to have different types of concerns and learn what different creatures can do. Jmagshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034586021207639787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370162161693557709.post-71920760132388009292016-01-04T10:11:12.006-06:002016-01-04T10:11:12.006-06:00I always hated energy drain. Not only is it unreal...I always hated energy drain. Not only is it unrealistic, it wastes a lot of time. You have to re-adjust saving throws, hit points, spells, proficiencies, to hit rolls, damage, etc. I view it like this: It is silly to assume that years of training go down the drain because you lost some of your life force.<br /><br />I simply apply a -1 to all rolls, for every time you are Energy Drained. Not only that, but you can only be "drained" a number times equal to your level, before you are dead. Energy Drain can be removed by Priests, by resting and recuperating for a certain period, whatever the players and DM find acceptable. It's quick, dirty, and not quite as soul-crushingly grim as losing tons of play time simply because of a bad roll. Eric R. Wirsinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04632409261940844934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370162161693557709.post-26593087644106069982016-01-04T04:08:11.812-06:002016-01-04T04:08:11.812-06:00Very nice article, I like how it actually try to g...Very nice article, I like how it actually try to get the intent of the mechanic instead of looking at it in just a number-y way. Gamers and players put way too much weight nowadays on things being all equally "balanced", but fail to realize that a game where everything is absolutely balanced and fair makes for a very dull one.Dantelion Shinonihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587047946872500179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370162161693557709.post-82668909017544302362016-01-04T00:04:24.689-06:002016-01-04T00:04:24.689-06:00Does Energy Drain bring you out of the game? Once ...Does Energy Drain bring you out of the game? Once the fight is done, and all of the levels have been reduced, and the cussing and grumbling is all finished, this monster has hurt you in a way that only it can. The pain is temporary, and it will go away, but pain is pain.<br /><br />It also speaks of player greed. In my last game I had a player wander off alone, and I gave him the option of giving this monster all of his stuff else face certain death and loss it all anyway, he chose to fight this thing and he died, rather than just giving the monster his worthless stuff! He didn't even have any magic treasure or anything of any real value, but he still refused to give it up. RipperXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506064393275174920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370162161693557709.post-63017694957643603462016-01-03T19:23:54.228-06:002016-01-03T19:23:54.228-06:00I come at these sorts of powers from a different p...I come at these sorts of powers from a different perspective. Rather than looking at it like a mechanic, to be "fixed", I accept it as-is, and ensure the players understand the gravity of facing such a creature. <br /><br />Not ever dragon is going to be easily killed.<br /><br />Not every monster is something to be faced as simply as one does it in a video game.<br /><br />Not every undead is just turn fodder.<br /><br />Something that has a steaming hand, a deathly gaze and the radiance of death about it *should* be taken seriously, by both GM (in using them) and players (in facing them) - have the appropriate spells and be ready to fucking RUN if that thing approaches and begins to weave the black magicks needed to steal your very soul... and be prepared to die, because facing such fell creatures should be done in fear, not in haughty indifference. <br /><br />Not every game should be balanced, just as real life and fairy tales are not balanced...Michael S/Chgowizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052820400496340137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370162161693557709.post-66884880820802097712016-01-03T18:41:09.239-06:002016-01-03T18:41:09.239-06:00My argument has always been that Energy Drain isn&...My argument has always been that Energy Drain isn't a game mechanic at all, but rather was an attempt at a metagame mechanic.<br /><br />That is, by damaging the one thing that requires true effort and work to replenish (and which has a profound effect on the game), what was intended was to make undead *scary to the player*. After all they are the walking dead.<br /><br />Even instant death is not as scary, because that just means you have to start again with a new character rather than do it all over again.<br /><br />Unfortunately the idea that monsters are there to be defeated (and not necessarily fled from in terror) triumphed, and instead of being scared by the possibility of level drain, and thus hesitant to battle the undead, players just complained that the effect was unfair.<br /><br />[One of the interesting things was that Wraiths paralysed enemy men they came with 1" of in _Chainmail_, until they were rallied by an elf, hero, or wizard. This is a pretty good indication of the effect of fear that surrounds them. And men only - it's the crippling fear of death that affects only mortals.]<br /><br />But this also means the gamemaster has to exercise restraint with dealing with undead. They should have very real limits that allow a party to avoid confrontation with them. Beyond the cleric's ability to exorcise them, of course.Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.com