8 comments:

SHARK said...

Greetings!

Was there no mage in the party or a cleric that could cast a *Light* spell? Or, at 3rd level, why did all of the party members not have either enchanted light sticks/rods/orbs--(if such is available)--or if not, why not prepped torches they could easily ignite and throw about into the darkness to create some light?

Conversely--how about a *Darkness* spell...or a *Fog* spell, to conceal themselves from the archery fire?

At 3rd level..why did the group not have a half dozen or so armored pikemen they could have sent charging up into the archers somewhere as a distraction, at least? Or how about half a dozen archers of their own to use some counterfire?

Failing that...why didn't each of the 3rd level player characters not bring along one or two savage war dogs *each*--that they could have released into the darkness...and had fun hearing the sounds of the enemy archers screaming as savage teeth leaped out of the darkness at them? (While that happened, the party could have vectored in on the enemy archers, and rushed them, and taken them out swiftly; or at least targeted them with ranged attacks of their own; or proceeded to add more confusion to the scene by pouring several dozen flasks of oil along the room, or along the stairways, and set them on fire, thus not only creating illumination, but also engaging the fear of fire, and creating smoke that would obscure line of sight, as well as caused general choking and confusion?

During these tactics, the party could have rolled the dice, and made a better attempt at charging the enemy and annihilating them, or at the very least it would have gained them a few more moments to think, and make a retreat to form a new line of attack, as desired.

These are things the party could have done.

You, my friend, as the DM, *must* remind them to think about things, take stock of their resources and supplies, and give them a hint or two about using their supplies/resources and tactics effectively. It is not only good, but also fair to remember that real people--trained in combat and such, akin to blood-soaked sword-carrying heroes...are typically able to make such salient decisions in a split-second...the players, as opposed to the characters, do not have this training, nor the *real-world vision* of the scene at hand...they must rely on that solely from you, my friend, so it is only fair and proper to give them extra time, and a little hint or two in assessing the situation.

Honestly, I see it--unless you can provide other salient details that I am unaware of--as a situation where you, the DM, didn't provide them with enough details of the scene, or the time and hints for them to properly and "realistically" assess the situation...and they goofed up by not already thinking or preparing the tactics that I mentioned above.

An alternative to staging a *do over*--perhaps you could have them manage to escape, and in the process, discover an ancient scroll that requires them to go to some sacred place or strange temple, and perform a special prayer and ceremony, where they can recall their fallen comrade back from the spirit world, and return their friend to the mortal realms? Such could be an interesting way to restore the player--who lost their character *partially* through DM mistakes--and at the same time, allow more roleplaying, some additional story elements to be woven in, and a sigh of relief and joy for the party...and one for yourself, as well...as a gentle reminder for the next time, to be thorough, and be fair, and also having fun being creative and *flexible*:)

I hope these comments are helpful to you my friend.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

January 4, 2010 at 6:04 AM  

Pingwin said...

I would never go for a do-over, the situation is gone and their current goal should be getting out alive. Regain their freedom.

You have shown them they live in a dangerous world, not just in general but also for themselves. They cannot just do whatever pleases them, they'll have to cooperate, think and 'work' to survive. If you feel you made it too hard well that happens too, dont sweat it, nobody is perfect and the story continues.

Perhaps some idea's you might find interesting:

- how about most of the other prisoners are from a nearby country (war) and are planning a prison break?

- how about they get stuck in a dungeon with a high ranking noble who really needs protection from the other inmates, until the day he can get out of here (politics) and repay them for their troubles.

Prisons can be totally cool places for sub-adventures, with their own inmate powerstructures, corrupt guards and whatever you feel like.

January 4, 2010 at 9:12 AM  

Nope said...

I like the prison break idea. The fighter's player could easily roll up a new pc who happens to be amongst the prisoners of the nearby country. Or even a wandering vagrant who got captured and thrown in the cell after some mishap of mayhem.

January 4, 2010 at 9:37 AM  

Timeshadows said...

New characters to rescue the last 'team' sent in.

From what I remember, 3rd is a bit on the low side to attempt that module, especially if they do ont work well as a team nor use their gear and abilities to the utmost.

As far as blame, shoulder half of it (even if you aren't that much at fault) and then exhort the players to think more about equipment choices, tactics, and so forth (i,e., their part of the blame).

Best,

January 4, 2010 at 11:19 AM  

RipperX said...

I'll have to talk with Shannon, he's the one that lost his character. I think that I can make that encounter a premonition of doom given to the cleric, who had a massive hangover and just showed up to be a trooper. I'll change the encounter slightly, but that will allow them to go fresh, and form some kind of plan on their own.

I'm still not sure, however, if 3rd level is just too low. I may prep a couple of side adventures to boost them up to forth. I don't know, I am still up for some ideas.

January 4, 2010 at 2:56 PM  

Mouse said...

I've always found ToEE very difficult to DM. 3rd level is about appropriate if the PCs are starting on dungeon level one but the guard tower is a pretty tough encounter for 3rd level players.

When I've run this in the past I always allow players to find a way into the main temple other than the front door so they can start on the first dungeon level.

From what I recall the guard tower spits the players out on third dungeon level. And that is certainly far too difficult for a third level party!

If the players can escape this will be a very exciting plot twist for them. They will be more cautious in the future and they will have gathered valuable information that several agents in Homlett would be very interested to hear about!

January 5, 2010 at 10:42 AM  

Zzarchov said...

I don't see how this is a problem, they lost. If its not going to be all stomp fests there is a strong chance of death or capture, at least they chose capture.

If the party wins all the time, then what is the fun in that?

Did anyone see the twilight zone episode where the gambler dies and thinks he goes to heaven because he wins every game he plays. Only grudingly does he realise he's in hell, because he always wins everything and there is no joy or risk. He can't even play pool because he sinks all the balls off the break.

January 6, 2010 at 7:36 AM  

Anonymous said...

You do know that the temple has two side entrances right next to the main door that the party can go through, right? What about the windows?

As far as the tower encounter, anything less than a solid team effort can easily turn into a TPK.

March 19, 2012 at 7:01 PM